The Law of Moses is the Law of YHVH!

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torahAfter our previous article on Y’shua and the laws of clean and unclean, we received a comment from a friend. With this comment, was a link to an article she wanted us to read, prayerfully consider and give feedback on.

This is our response to this article. We will not go into every little detail of the article, but will show you how fundamentally wrong and unscriptural the author’s statements are. We will not be posting a link to this article as we don’t believe in perpetuating false doctrine. We do, however, want to respond to this, because it is very important to us that people are warned and equipped to deal with this kind of false doctrine.

The linked article states that the ten commandments are distinct from the other commandments and the only law written by YHVH, thus the only law valid for us to obey. He calls it a strange belief that the Ten Commandments are considered part of “the Law of Moses” and goes further to say that “the law of Moses” has been done away with by Y’shua.

Let’s see what we can learn from Scripture in this regard and then prayerfully consider it.

Ceremonial law vs moral law

The author of this article also states that Scripture refers to two laws, “the law of YHVH” which he calls the “moral law” and “the law of Moses,” which He calls “the ceremonial law.” To say there are two laws is not in line with Scripture (we will get to the detail later)and where does the classification of moral and ceremonial law come from? You can go and do a search in the Bible, and you will not find this classification; this is man-made.

This is not new either! I remember when we started asking questions about the validity of YHVH’s commandments, that this was one of the first explanations we got. That “the moral law” was still valid, but “the ceremonial law” has been done away with by Y’shua. This has been done in order to be able to pick and choose which laws are still valid. We were, at the time, not able to find a proper list of which laws fit into which category. The author of this article, however, makes a clear distinction, the ten commandments are moral and the rest, “the Law of Moses” is ceremonial.

Let’s take a look at what is taught in Scripture about “the Law of Moses”

The law of Moses

The phrase “the law of Moses” is used in Scripture quite a few times, but does this phrase mean that it carries with it only the authority of Moses, and can therefore easily be discarded? In order to answer this question, we need to determine who gave the commandments contained therein.

In the book of 1 Chronicles, we have an opportunity to listen in on a conversation David had with his son Solomon. In this conversation, David gave Solomon instruction. This is what he said:

1 Chronicles 22:12–13
12 “Only YHVH give you discretion and understanding, and give you charge over Israel, so that you may keep the law of YHVH your Elohim. 13 “Then you will prosper, if you are careful to observe the statutes and the ordinances which YHVH commanded Moses concerning Israel. Be strong and courageous, do not fear nor be dismayed.

King David is referring to one law, the law of YHVH. He admonishes Solomon to keep the law of YHVH and then expands on it by saying that he will prosper if he is careful to observe the statutes and ordinances which YHVH commanded Moses. Look at the use of the word “then.” From this, we learn that the law of YHVH, the statutes and ordinances, were commanded by YHVH.

The giving of the Law

Let’s go back to Exodus to see if this is indeed so. In Exodus 20, we read about how YHVH spoke to the people from the mountain. He gave them, what we know, as the ten commandments. After YHVH spoke the ten words, the people trembled and pleaded with Moses, this is what they said:

Exodus 20:18–21
18 All the people perceived the thunder and the lightning flashes and the sound of the trumpet and the mountain smoking; and when the people saw it, they trembled and stood at a distance. 19 Then they said to Moses, “Speak to us yourself and we will listen; but let not Elohim speak to us, or we will die.” 20 Moses said to the people, “Do not be afraid; for Elohim has come in order to test you, and in order that the fear of Him may remain with you, so that you may not sin.” 21 So the people stood at a distance, while Moses approached the thick cloud where Elohim was.

When we continue reading, we see what was written down after this was spoken by YHVH to Moses for him to tell the sons of Israel.

Exodus 20:22
22 Then YHVH said to Moses, “Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, ‘You yourselves have seen that I have spoken to you from heaven.

YHVH then continues, repeating the commandment not to make other gods and next gave instructions on how they were to build an altar for Him. In the modern Bibles, we then start a new chapter, it makes me wonder why the chapter starts in the middle of YHVH’s instructions. Anyway, the first verse of this new chapter, proves that it is a continuation of YHVH’s commandments to the people.

Exodus 21:1
1 “Now these are the ordinances which you are to set before them:

If the people did not fear, this would have been spoken directly to them. However, they feared and asked YHVH not to speak directly to them again, but through Moses. YHVH granted them their request.

Another verse that proves to us that all the commandments are from YHVH, thus part of YHVH’s law is found in Exodus 24.

Exodus 24:3–4
3 Then Moses came and recounted to the people all the words of YHVH and all the ordinances; and all the people answered with one voice and said, “All the words which YHVH has spoken we will do!” 4 Moses wrote down all the words of YHVH. Then he arose early in the morning, and built an altar at the foot of the mountain with twelve pillars for the twelve tribes of Israel.

From this verse, we see that all that was commanded by YHVH, all His words (including the ordinances) were written down by Moses, and became the book of the law of Moses.

So, do you now understand why YHVH’s commandments are often referred to as “the Law of Moses?” Firstly, because after the people said they didn’t want YHVH to speak to them directly, YHVH gave them instructions through Moses and secondly, because it was written down by Moses.

Here is a verse that proves it:

Exodus 17:14
14 Then YHVH said to Moses, “Write this in a (literal the) book as a memorial and recite it to Joshua, that I will utterly blot out the memory of Amalek from under heaven.”

From this quote and the previous one, “Moses wrote down all the words of YHVH,“we see that Moses wrote down YHVH’s instructions.

The ten commandmentsten commandments2

When YHVH gave the first set of stones with the law and commandments on it and it was written by the finger of YHVH. The people sinned by making a golden calf and Moses broke these stones. YHVH, thereafter commanded Moses to come up and bring two new stones with him and it seems that Moses was commanded to write it all down.

Exodus 34:27–28
27 Then YHVH said to Moses, “Write down these words, for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel.” 28 So he was there with YHVH forty days and forty nights; he did not eat bread or drink water. And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.

However, when you read Exodus 34:1, YHVH said that He would write it. The “he” in Ex 34:28 should have been capitalized, it is misleading. I initially misunderstood it to read that Moses wrote on the tablets, but it was YHVH Who did.

Let us look at some more references to “the Law of Moses. The phrase “law of Moses” is used for the first time by Joshua, he uses it as a reference, he more specifically calls it “the book of the law of Moses.” He uses it like we would refer to a book by title and author. He is not referring to a separate law written by Moses.

What is contained in the law of Moses?

Let’s see if we can find out what was contained in the “book of the Law of Moses.”

In 1 Kings chapter 2, David gave charge to his son Solomon just before he died. He refers to the “Law of Moses” and tell us what is contained therein.

1 Kings 2:3
3 “Keep the charge of YHVH your Elohim, to walk in His ways, to keep His statutes, His commandments, His ordinances, and His testimonies, according to what is written in the Law of Moses, that you may succeed in all that you do and wherever you turn,

Read this verse again. “Keep the charge of YHVH your Elohim, to walk in HIS ways, to keep HIS statutes, HIS ordinances and HIS testimonies, according to what is written in the law of Moses.” We learn from this verse that it is YHVH’s statutes, YHVH’s commandments, YHVH’s ordinances and YHVH’s testimonies that are contained in the “Law of Moses.”

When we read this, can we still downplay the law of Moses as something separate that was written by Moses and can thus be done away with?

The law of Moses was commanded by YHVH

There is another reference in 2 Kings to “the Law of Moses,” here , we read that it was commanded by YHVH.

2 Kings 14:6
6 But the sons of the slayers he did not put to death, according to what is written in the book of the Law of Moses, as YHVH commanded, saying, “The fathers shall not be put to death for the sons, nor the sons be put to death for the fathers; but each shall be put to death for his own sin.”

In the book of Ezra, we find another reference to who gave “the Law of Moses.”

Ezra 7:6
6 This Ezra went up from Babylon, and he was a scribe skilled in the law of Moses, which YHVH Elohim of Israel had given; and the king granted him all he requested because the hand of the Lord his God was upon him.

Nehemiah 8:1
1 And all the people gathered as one man at the square which was in front of the Water Gate, and they asked Ezra the scribe to bring the book of the law of Moses which YHVH had given to Israel.

Malachi 4:4
4 “Remember the law of Moses My servant, even the statutes and ordinances which I commanded him in Horeb for all Israel.

Now that we know what is contained in, and who commanded what is written in the Law of Moses, we need to determine if we are required to do this.

YHVH said we must do it all

Leviticus 19:37
37 ‘You shall thus observe all My statutes and all My ordinances and do them; I am YHVH.’ ”

You may say this is only for Israel to observe. Did you know that when we become believers of the Elohim of Israel, that we come to be a part of His people, Israel? We have written an article about who we are when we become believers “Who is Israel and why you would want to be a part of Israel.” Please read this if you are unsure about your identity.

So, if we become a part of Israel, YHVH’s instructions for Israel are valid for us too. So, when YHVH said

“You shall thus observe all My statutes and all My ordinances and do them; I am YHVH.” He was speaking to us too.

If you say you only have to obey the ten commandments, you may do the following:

Let’s assume, for argument’s sake, that this author is correct and we are only to obey the ten commandments, then you will be allowed to do quite a number of things that you won’t do if you believed that all the commandments were still valid.

  • You could approach any blood relative to uncover their nakedness, that means to have sexual relations with them ( Leviticus 18:6)
  • You could give of your offspring to Molech ( Lev 18:21)
  • You could have intercourse with an animal (Lev 18:23)

These things are not mentioned in the ten commandments, only in the law of Moses. Even though YHVH said it, you reject it when you say that we only have to obey the ten commandments. This is what YHVH said about this, He called it abominations.

Leviticus 18:24–26
24 ‘Do not defile yourselves by any of these things; for by all these the nations which I am casting out before you have become defiled. 25 ‘For the land has become defiled, therefore I have brought its punishment upon it, so the land has spewed out its inhabitants. 26 ‘But as for you, you are to keep My statutes and My judgments and shall not do any of these abominations, neither the native, nor the alien who sojourns among you

There are numerous other things that would also be permitted. You can eat blood, practice divination and soothsaying, prostitute your daughter, you don’t have to have respect for elderly people and you may turn to mediums and spiritists (Lev 19:26-32.)

Were these also done away with? Even though YHVH said after this list:

Leviticus 19:37
37 ‘You shall thus observe all My statutes and all My ordinances and do them; I am YHVH.’ ”

Who’s instructions are these? Would you practice any of these as a believer?

YHVH’s commandments, ordinances and statutes are eternal

These are His eternal instructions. Do you know how many times YHVH said that His statutes are perpetual, or everlasting?

Exodus 12:24
24 “And you shall observe this event as an ordinance for you and your children forever.

Here, YHVH commanded this event, the Passover, to be observed forever. Just how long is forever? Let’s look at the meaning of the word. The Hebrew word “olam” was used.

6409 עוֹלָם (ʿô·lām): adv. [oth n.masc.]; ≡ Str 5769; TWOT 1631a—1. LN 67.78–67.117 everlasting, forever, eternity, i.e., pertaining to an unlimited duration of time, usually with a focus on the future (Ge 3:22); 2. LN 67.78–67.117 ancient, old, i.e., existing for a long time in the relative past (1Sa 27:8; Ps 119:52); 3. LN 67.78–67.117 lasting, for a duration, i.e., an undetermined duration of time without reference to other points of time, with a focus of no anticipated end, but nevertheless may have limits (Nu 25:13; Jer 18:16), note: for MT text in 2Ch 33:7, see 64092

The command not to work on the Sabbath, is also perpetual, olam.

Leviticus 23:31
31 “You shall do no work at all. It is to be a perpetual statute throughout your generations in all your dwelling places.

These are just two examples, do your own study and see how many times YHVH said that an ordinance or statute is perpetual/ forever/everlasting. Whenever this word “olam” is used in the context of YHVH or His commandments, it means eternal. This same word was used in the next verse.

Exodus 15:18
18 “YHVH shall reign forever and ever.”

If we say that the ordinances which YHVH said we are to keep forever, has stopped or have been done away with when Y’shua died, then we can make a logical conclusion that YHVH would also not reign forever. We know this not to be true as YHVH is the beginning and the end, His reign does not stop, and YHVH does not lie.

Numbers 23:19
19 “Elohim is not a man, that He should lie, Nor a son of man, that He should repent; Has He said, and will He not do it? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?

What did Y’shua say?

Y’shua said the same

Matthew 5:17–19
17 “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18 “For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 “Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Fulfill does not mean to abolish, Y’shua did not say that He did not come to abolish but to abolish. He came to fill it up with meaning. Y’shua came as our perfect example, He kept YHVH’s commandments flawlessly. Whoever say that Y’shua did away with YHVH’s commandments, makes Y’shua a false prophet as per Deuteronomy 13:1-5.

Deuteronomy 13:1–5
1 “If a prophet or a dreamer of dreams arises among you and gives you a sign or a wonder, 2 and the sign or the wonder comes true, concerning which he spoke to you, saying, ‘Let us go after other gods (whom you have not known) and let us serve them,’ 3 you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams; for YHVH your Elohim is testing you to find out if you love YHVH your Elohim with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 “You shall follow YHVH your Elohim and fear Him; and you shall keep His commandments, listen to His voice, serve Him, and cling to Him. 5 “But that prophet or that dreamer of dreams shall be put to death, because he has counseled rebellion against YHVH your Elohim who brought you from the land of Egypt and redeemed you from the house of slavery, to seduce you from the way in which YHVH your Elohim commanded you to walk. So you shall purge the evil from among you.

In this passage, we learn that if somebody teaches against the keeping YHVH’s commandments, even if he does signs and wonders, he is a false prophet and should be stoned. Y’shua did not teach against or broke YHVH’s commandments. Breaking YHVH’s commandments would be a sin and Y’shua is sinless and He is not a false prophet.

Later in the book of Matthew, Y’shua tells the people in so many words that they are to obey the “Law of Moses”

Matthew 23:2–4
2 saying: “The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the chair of Moses; 3 therefore all that they tell you, do and observe, but do not do according to their deeds; for they say things and do not do them. 4 “They tie up heavy burdens and lay them on men’s shoulders, but they themselves are unwilling to move them with so much as a finger.

Y’shua said “all that they tell you, do and observe,” this refers to the Law of Moses, however He added that they are not to do according to what they do “their deeds” for they are hypocrits and have added to YHVH’s commandments (heavy burdens) their halacha.

Y’shua told the story of Lazarus and the rich man and the rich man asked Abraham to send Lazarus to his brothers to warn them. This was his answer.

Luke 16:29–31
29 “But Abraham said, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.’ 30 “But he said, ‘No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent!’ 31 “But he said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.’ ”

Y’shua would not have said this if the “Law of Moses” was done away with.

Let us next look at what the Apostles taught and did.

What did the Apostels do and teach?

In Acts 15, the apostles are facing the dilemma of what to do when gentiles become believers. They decided to give them four “rules” to adhere to at first, for when they do this, they will be accepted within the believing community. He added that they would then be able to go to the Synagogue on Shabbat and learn, for Moses has in every city those who preach him. They would, in other words, go to the Synagogue and learn “the Law of Moses.”

Acts 15:20–21
20 but that we write to them that they abstain from things contaminated by idols and from fornication and from what is strangled and from blood. 21 “For Moses from ancient generations has in every city those who preach him, since he is read in the synagogues every Sabbath.”

Furthermore, take note that of the things which are listed here, only one originates from the Decaloque (ten commandments), the other three originates from the Law of Moses. This, and them saying that they would go to the synagogue on the Sabbath to learn “Moses” proves that they were still keeping the law of Moses and were teaching others to do the same.

Conclusion

We can go on and on, finding more examples, but the best is to search the Scriptures for yourself, IN CONTEXT to see if this is indeed so. If we ask YHVH to reveal his truth to us, He will, but we would have to, diligently, search for it in His Word. It is easy to find articles online that support our thinking; however, the more difficult road to travel is the one where you read and study the Scriptures for yourself, ALL OF IT and ask YHVH for understanding. His Word is not fragmented, and He is not a liar. What He said in the beginning still stands, He does not change. I would not want to believe in a god who changes his mind every few thousand years, do you?

Malachi 3:6
6 “For I, YHVH, do not change; therefore you, O sons of Jacob, are not consumed.

The author of this article, we mentioned above, gives some examples to support his false teaching. These have been taken out of context, and if you don’t know the context, it will make his theory seem true. We will not go into this, because his departing point is false, his foundation is flawed. He is a false teacher!

YHVH has one law, and He does not change and Y’shua is not a false prophet. End of the story!! He is our Savior, the prophesied Messiah. He came to show us how to live; He died for our sins, was resurrected and is now an advocate for us with the Father. It angers me when He is misrepresented like this. He did not come to bring lawlessness, on the contrary! He condemned lawlessness!

Matthew 7:22–23
22 “Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Master, Master, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?’ 23 “And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.’

We need not say more! We hope this will inspire you to search out YHVH’s Word for yourself. You may read and listen to the teachings, but always go and read the quoted Scriptures in context, not only in its immediate and historical context but also in context of all of YHVH’S Word. Then ask YHVH to give you an understanding! This is the only way.

References

  1. All quoted passages are from the New American Standard Bible: 1995 Update. LaHabra, CA: The Lockman Foundation, 1995. We have substituted YHVH for LORD, and Y’shua for Jesus.
  2. Swanson, J. (1997). Dictionary of Biblical Languages with Semantic Domains : Hebrew (Old Testament). Oak Harbor: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

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13 responses to “The Law of Moses is the Law of YHVH!”

  1. Cindy

    This is absolutely one of the best explanations I have ever read! Thank you!

    Reply
  2. Barry Thomson

    Hello, God Bless,

    I have enjoyed reading your posts, and would like to ask you a question or more regarding the Hebrew word olam and the Greek word aeon, I have seen a few descriptions given of the translations and feel I may have noticed a common thread or theme between these words, they can mean contextually forever or eternal sure, but more likely mean age and or ages etc, like rock of ages, the Greek understanding of time was as an age, and to my awareness the description given of olam by a Hebrew scholar from an Israeli institute is as an event past or present being over the horizon, close or very distant but over the horizon and thus difficult to see, aeon and olam are somewhat similar I feel, perhaps thus chosen by God over more definitive words for eternal etc, because they may have been meant as age or ages in certain contexts, and more in other contexts, one root meaning of aeon I have seen is to mean life and or being, and I have heard these things described rather as indefinite periods of time, so perhaps indefinite periods while life or being lasts, I think these concepts Go well together and explain some of the hard to understand scriptures, and God being the only eternal, but also the God of the ages, all of the ages, the beginning and the ending, is fitting wouldn’t you say?, I mention these things with perhaps some more questions in mind, I am of the opinion that the second death in hell, or Gehenna, will be a burning up, a destruction that is temporary but has everlasting consequences, such as how Sodom and Gomorrah are forever gone, but do not burn to this day, Jude 7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
    someone mentioned the possibility that, as the smoke of savour is pleasing to God in sacrifice, the smoke of torment which rises, perhaps figuratively and literally speaking, forever appeases the righteous wrath of God upon the wicked / wickedness and sin, but the wicked do not burn forever, they are burned up, it will be as if they had not been, they will be ashes under feet as it is written, I believe this view is supported by the scriptures.

    also, as a gentile believer, I have had difficulty with the laws, in understanding them, and in confidence of ability to practice them properly on my own, they can seem burdensome and difficult to a new comer, but it is written “For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.” so I guess my fear and lack of knowledge is or was affecting me, and a life lived in the commandments once they are known is not grievous or burdensome etc, making Gods word true in any case, but, though it is true, there are still daunting and or confusing things regarding the law, particularly for new believers I feel, though I do admit, that such may be deceptions of the heart and mind, and rebellion of the sin nature in the face of truth requiring submissive action to the light, my flesh warring against me to remain in darkness etc, anyway, though it has been written, one Law for all etc, which remains true because it is Gods word, true regardless of whether I understand it or not, I do remember an example if I remember correctly, when aliens needed to be circumcised to eat Passover 43 And the Lord said unto Moses and Aaron, This is the ordinance of the passover:
    Exodus 12 There shall no stranger eat thereof:
    44 But every man’s servant that is bought for money, when thou hast circumcised him, then shall he eat thereof.
    45 A foreigner and an hired servant shall not eat thereof.
    46 In one house shall it be eaten; thou shalt not carry forth ought of the flesh abroad out of the house; neither shall ye break a bone thereof.
    47 All the congregation of Israel shall keep it.
    48 And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the Lord, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof.
    49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.
    but after the cross, the true Passover lamb likely being Jesus, gentiles are no longer required to do so, to be circumcised I mean, 1 Corinthians 7:18-20 Is any man called being circumcised? let him not become uncircumcised. Is any called in uncircumcision? let him not be circumcised. 19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God. 20 Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called.
    Romans 2 8 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
    29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

    and emphasis is made that the law cannot save us, make us righteous, or even truly be kept in perfection by any man, being fulfilled by God for man in Christ alone, if that is the correct way to express that all men fall short, and Christ alone is sinless, the spotless lamb, the precious blood of whom redeems the whole world, Christ fulfilling all the law, the prophets, and all righteousness, so that we are to walk knowing we are saved by grace through faith in the finished work of Christ, adding nothing there to, though faith without works is dead, and our works testify our belief, works save not, salvation being a gift of God, and not something we could ever earn, the circumcision was perhaps mentioned specifically for a certain reason, and not as evidence of the so called doing away with law, because as Jesus said,
    matthew 5 17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

    however, as I understand it, since he has now fulfilled the law on our behalf, .freeing us from the power of the law as it is written, and explained in verses such as,Romans 6:14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace,
    Romans 7:4 Therefore, my brethren, you also were made to die to the Law through the body of Christ, so that you might be joined to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God.
    Hebrews 10:1 For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things to come and not the very form of things, can never, by the same sacrifices which they offer continually year by year, make perfect those who draw near.
    Galatians 4:4-5 But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, so that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.
    Romans 3:21-26 But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed; for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
    Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
    Ephesians 2:14-15 For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace,
    John 12:24 24Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.
    Mathew 27 40 And saying, Thou that destroyest the temple, and buildest it in three days, save thyself. If thou be the Son of God, come down from the cross.
    41 Likewise also the chief priests mocking him, with the scribes and elders, said,
    42 He saved others; himself he cannot save. If he be the King of Israel, let him now come down from the cross, and we will believe him.
    43 He trusted in God; let him deliver him now, if he will have him: for he said, I am the Son of God.
    44 The thieves also, which were crucified with him, cast the same in his teeth.
    45 Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour.
    46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
    47 Some of them that stood there, when they heard that, said, This man calleth for Elias.
    48 And straightway one of them ran, and took a spunge, and filled it with vinegar, and put it on a reed, and gave him to drink.
    49 The rest said, Let be, let us see whether Elias will come to save him.
    50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
    51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
    52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
    53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
    54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.
    Romans 7:7 – What shall we say then? [Is] the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
    Romans 3:31 – Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
    Romans 7:6 – But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not [in] the oldness of the letter.
    Galatians 3 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
    2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
    3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
    4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
    5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
    6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
    7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
    8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
    9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
    10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
    11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
    12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
    13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
    14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
    Romans 3:19 – Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
    James 2:10 – For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one [point], he is guilty of all.
    Galatians 5:18 – But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
    Romans 8:4 – That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
    Romans 7 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
    2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
    3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
    4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
    5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
    6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
    7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
    8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
    9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
    10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
    11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
    12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
    13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
    14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
    15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
    16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
    17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
    18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
    19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
    20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
    21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
    22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
    23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
    24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
    25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

    1 [There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
    2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
    3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
    4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
    5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
    6 For to be carnally minded [is] death; but to be spiritually minded [is] life and peace.
    7 Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
    8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
    9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
    10 And if Christ [be] in you, the body [is] dead because of sin; but the Spirit [is] life because of righteousness.
    11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
    12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
    13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
    14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
    15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
    16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
    17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with [him], that we may be also glorified together.
    18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time [are] not worthy [to be compared] with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
    19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
    20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected [the same] in hope,
    21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
    22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
    23 And not only [they], but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body.
    24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
    25 But if we hope for that we see not, [then] do we with patience wait for [it].
    26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
    27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what [is] the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to [the will of] God.
    28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to [his] purpose.
    29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
    30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
    31 What shall we then say to these things? If God [be] for us, who [can be] against us?
    32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
    33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God’s elect? [It is] God that justifieth.
    34 Who [is] he that condemneth? [It is] Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
    35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? [shall] tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
    36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
    37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
    38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
    39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

    Galatians 2:16 – Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
    Romans 3:28 – Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
    Ephesians 2 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
    2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
    3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
    4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
    5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
    6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
    7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
    8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
    10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
    11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
    12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
    13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
    14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
    15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
    16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
    17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
    18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
    19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
    20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
    21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
    22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

    I do not want lawlessness, I want to obey in truth, but what in truth does God desire me to do, is the circumcision the only thing I am free from, but I must follow everything else to the letter, or, since the temple sacrifices are finished and fulfilled in Christ, do I follow the commandments simply as was described by Jesus, to Love God, and love my neighbour as myself, Walking in the fruit of the spirit by the grace and power of the almighty, in whom all things are possible, the fruit against which there is no law, in faith that I am justified not by the letter of the law and the following thereof, but by the finished work of Christ, which I can add nothing too, I am not to be lawless, I am not to sin, I am to know and obey Gods Law, for sin is transgression of the Law, I am not to sin, and the un righteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

    I am of the understanding that I am to hear and live in obedience to ALL of Gods word including the Law, for it is written,
    Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
    a question is, since I do not have to be circumcised, and the ceremonial / sacrificial law is fulfilled and finished unto this day and forever more in Jesus, what else in that light aught I to do, and what else in that light aught I be excused from, or is circumcision all I am excused from, do I become an honorary Jew and practice the law, or a child of God, whose life is guided by the whole of Gods word, but who walks rather in the spirit of the law, By the grace of God through Jesus and the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit, justified forever but being sanctified day by day, as I grow in Christ until the return of the Lord, in whom, if I remain steadfast until the end, I shall be saved,

    Romans 13 9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
    10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
    Galatians 5:14 “For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.”
    Mathew 22 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
    38 This is the first and great commandment.
    39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
    40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

    Isaiah 28 5 In that day shall the Lord of hosts be for a crown of glory, and for a diadem of beauty, unto the residue of his people,
    6 And for a spirit of judgment to him that sitteth in judgment, and for strength to them that turn the battle to the gate.
    7 But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment.
    8 For all tables are full of vomit and filthiness, so that there is no place clean.
    9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
    10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
    11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
    12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
    13 But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

    2 Timothy 3:16 “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:”

    so, Since circumcision is not required, and by Gods word I cannot partake in Passover without circumcision, perhaps I can with a circumcised heart, but I would like to wait until God specifically tells me its ok, rather than risking disobedience one way or another being uncircumcised, and since the sacrifices are finished, done no more being fulfilled in Christ, I ask, what would be a following of the Law for a gentile? I believe and wish to obey ALL of Gods word, Gods word is life and truth, but do I become Jewish now in ceremony, I am happy to be a member of Israel according to the promise, but do I celebrate the feasts now alone?, or later with Israel in Gods coming Kingdom?, I want to follow Jesus, and live as he lived in a sense, by living in likeness of him in Gods image, though currently I am weak and far way from such, perhaps my query has self evident answers, but since being uncircumcised, and via other circumstance I either cannot fulfil the law, or am advised against parts of it such as circumcision, what should I do, focus on the letter of the law and ceremony of the people?, or walk in grace of the Lord justified by faith, fulfilling the spirit of the law in love through the fruit of the Holy Spirit? or, what other advice or way would you suggest in keeping with scripture?

    since olam and aeon can mean an age, having a beginning and an end, and some of the laws, commandments or statutes have in some sense ended, can others have ended and or have been fulfilled in Christ?, while remaining true and Holy being unnecessary for Christians / gentile converts to the spiritual family of Israel?, if this is the case, in any possible case, which ceremonial laws etc are we able to view as fulfilled?, and which should we practice?, do you see what I am getting at? I hope this questioning can benefit I and you together, I so I may learn and do such as I lack, and you so you may be free in Christ of such as is fulfilled in him, I pray that we both receive true guidance from God, and then follow it, peace, Barry.

    Reply
    1. Barry Thomson

      The Hebrew word olam means in the far distance. When looking off in the far distance it is difficult to make out any details and what is beyond that horizon cannot be seen. This concept is the olam. The word olam is also used for time for the distant past or the distant future as a time that is difficult to know or perceive.
      This word is frequently translated as eternity or forever but in the English language it is misunderstood to mean a continual span of time that never ends. In the Hebrew mind it is simply what is at or beyond the horizon, a very distant time.
      A common phrase in the Hebrew is “l’olam va’ed” and is usually translated as “forever and ever” but in the Hebrew it means “to the distant horizon and again” meaning “a very distant time and even further” and is used to express the idea of a very ancient or future time.
      So olam mean “a very distant time” which is far enough away you can’t see it.

      Reply
      1. Schalk_and_Elsa

        Shalom Barry,
        According to most Lexicons, Olam means:

        6409 עוֹלָם (ʿô·lām): adv. [oth n.masc.]; ≡ Str 5769; TWOT 1631a
        1. LN 67.78–67.117 everlasting, forever, eternity, i.e., pertaining to an unlimited duration of time, usually with a focus on the future (Ge 3:22);
        2. LN 67.78–67.117 ancient, old, i.e., existing for a long time in the relative past (1Sa 27:8; Ps 119:52);
        3. LN 67.78–67.117 lasting, for a duration, i.e., an undetermined duration of time without reference to other points of time, with a focus of no anticipated end, but nevertheless may have limits (Nu 25:13; Jer 18:16), note: for MT text in 2Ch 33:7, see 6409

        Swanson, J. (1997). Dictionary of Biblical Languages with Semantic Domains : Hebrew (Old Testament) (electronic ed.). Oak Harbor: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

        עוֹלָם & (14 ×) עֹלָם (437 ×): sf. עֹלָמוֹ Ec 12:5; pl. עֹ(וֹ)לָמִים, cs. עוֹלְמֵי:—1. long time, constancy, all (coming) time (in Eng. usu. ‘eternity,’ ‘eternal,’ but not to be understood in philosophical sense): ʿebed ʿôlām 1 S 27:12 = David’s lifetime; so in many comb:. berît ʿôlām Gn 9:16 &c.;—2. adv. for all time, for ever Ps 61:3, = leʿôlām Gn 3:22, = ʿad-ʿôlām 13:15 & ʿad-leʿôlām 1 C 23:25;—3. long time ago, the dim past: gibʿōt ʿôlām Gn 49:26; mēʿôlām Gn 6:4; so mēhāʿôlām weʿad-hāʿôlām Ps 41:14 &c.;—4. ʿôlām referring to God: ʾel ʿôlām Gn 21:33 & sim. phr.;—5. spec.: bêt ʿôlāmô house for ever = grave Ec 12:5; mētê ʿôlām those long dead Ps 143:3; pl. ʿôlāmîm = times to come 1 K 8:13; = times past Ec 1:10.

        Holladay, W. L., & Köhler, L. (2000). A concise Hebrew and Aramaic lexicon of the Old Testament (pp. 267–268). Leiden: Brill.

        The meaning is also in accordance with context or object.

        YHVH uses this same word to describe Himself- the Everlasting (Olam)Elohim

        Genesis 21:33
        33 Abraham planted a tamarisk tree at Beersheba, and there he called on the name of the LORD, the Everlasting God.

        Isaiah 40:28
        28 Do you not know? Have you not heard? The Everlasting God, the LORD, the Creator of the ends of the earth Does not become weary or tired. His understanding is inscrutable.

        Reply
    2. Barry Thomson

      Hello,

      I would like to add one more thing, many of the laws cannot now be kept in any case, whether considered ongoing or fulfilled or otherwise, the Levites are no more, and ordinary people if I remember correctly are forbidden to practise as the Levites, mankind does not have the right or authority to declare new Levites, and in any case, the temple is destroyed, by every example, the relationship between Israel and God has changed, it is written,
      Mathew 23 37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
      38
      Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
      39
      For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

      some believe there will be a new physical temple built, and then things will be reinstituted, but Israel was scattered, the tribes have forgotten who they are, and in any case, the temple has already been rebuilt, just as the Lord said,
      John 2:19 “Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”
      and as it is written,
      Mathew 27 40 And saying, Thou that destroyest the temple, and buildest it in three days, save thyself. If thou be the Son of God, come down from the cross.
      50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
      51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;
      20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
      21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
      22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
      Acts 7 48 “However, the Most High does not live in houses made by human hands. As the prophet says:
      49
      “‘Heaven is my throne,
      and the earth is my footstool.
      What kind of house will you build for me?
      says the Lord.
      Or where will my resting place be?
      50
      Has not my hand made all these things?’[l]

      so you see, the temple has been built, the messiah has come, the body of Christ is the temple of God, and the body of believers is also the temple of God, and individual believers are the temples of God, and Christ is the high priest,
      1 Timothy 2:5-7 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
      Hebrews 9 11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
      12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
      13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
      14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
      15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

      so you see, God has said,
      Mathew 23 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
      39
      For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

      in light of the truth of Gods word, I ask a question, are believers to become Jews for salvation?, or rather, are BOTH JEWS AND GENTILES, to accept Christ and follow him, it seems to me the old way is finished, complete, the Jews are the firstborn, but that way is over, that covenant has been replaced,
      Hebrews 8 6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
      7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
      8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
      9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
      10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
      11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
      12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
      13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

      as I see it, all things are fulfilled, our sins are forgiven, we are reconciled to God in christ,
      2 Corinthians 5 17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
      18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
      19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

      so all that is left is to accept the finished work of Christ, and believe on him for salvation, walking in his ways in obedience, sheep following the shepherd, lead in the spirit, and justified by God, saved by grace through faith, not of ourselves, the gift of god, knowing the law, knowing Gods word, for we live not on bread alone, but every word of God, and by the law is knowledge of sin, sin is transgression of the law, therefore we are not to sin or transgress the law, but we have been freed in Jesus, being under the letter of the law in the flesh is not what will save us,
      Acts 13:38-39 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins: And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.
      James 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
      Romans 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
      Romans 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
      1 Corinthians 6:12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.
      Galatians 5:13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
      Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
      John 8:31-32 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
      John 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
      1 John 1:7
      “But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.”

      I say again, I am but a man, I could make mistakes in my understanding, but Gods word is absolute truth, I have faith therefore that what has been written is so, and the misunderstandings are of men, for it is written,
      1 Corinthians 14:33 – For God is not [the author] of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
      and it is written,
      John 18:20 20″I have spoken openly to the world,” Jesus replied. “I always taught in synagogues or at the temple, where all the Jews come together. I said nothing in secret.

      by the grace we can know the truth, it is written seek and ye shall find, and the truth will set you free, free in the law of liberty.

      Proverbs 3:1-2 My son, forget not my law;
      but let thine heart keep my commandments:
      For length of days, and long life,
      and peace, shall they add to thee.

      Malachi 4:4
      “Remember the law of Moses My servant, even the statutes and ordinances which I commanded him in Horeb for all Israel.

      Jeremiah 31:33
      “But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the LORD, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

      as I see it, we are to know the law, honour and remember it, filling our hearts and minds up with the light of It, with all of Gods word also, walking in the ways of the Lord, but not in the oldness of the letter by the flesh, in the spirit as his children, bringing forth the fruit of the spirit, against which there is no law, not merely as Jew or gentile, but children of the living God, the spiritual family of Israel and of Abraham, and we ourselves collectively the temple of the living God, of which Christ is the head, look forward to hearing your thoughts on these things, peace.

      Reply
      1. Schalk_and_Elsa

        Shalom Barry,
        The temple described in Ezekiel has never been built. There will be a future temple according to what is written in Ezekiel and Zachariah. That does not take away from what is written in the New Testament. We are figuratively temples of the Holy Spirit. This is spiritual talk. The Spiritual and physical can co-exist. It is not the one or the other. Furthermore, YHVH’s covenant is eternal. Read the articles about covenants and you will understand. YHVH has not and will not change His mind, we can trust in Him because He is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow.

        Reply
    3. Schalk_and_Elsa

      Shalom Barry,
      We understand your concern and would like to offer you our perspective. If in the New Testament, circumcision is compared with uncircumcision, circumcision implies Jewish Halacha and/or becoming a Jew by proselytization – thus complying with their halacha. If you were to read Galatians and other passages with this mindset, you would understand that it is not about keeping the commandment of circumcision, but about following that which was added to it. what Paul normally refers to is faith in YHVH as shown to us by Y’shua, compared to what the Scribes and Pharisees taught.
      The perception that all sacrifices had been done away with is not scriptural. To prove the point Paul still made offers and in the book of Ezekiel and Zachariah, there are references to future sacrifices.

      Shalom,
      Schalk

      Reply
  3. Barry Thomson

    I will add for clarification, I do believe in temporary burning of destruction by hellfire that leads to eternal death is supported by scripture, but the thought of smoke in torment as written appeasing the wrath of God is merely an interesting thought, and I would not say that such has scriptural backing because I do not know that, and though interesting may not be the case, the smoke rising forever is true being written, but likely in a sense, and likely figuratively, perhaps meaning until the end of that age at that ages end, or something similar, I am not sure of the scriptures meaning there, but I am somewhat confident that never ending suffering is un biblical, for example, no rest day or night could mean two things, not receiving of Gods rest as the saved, or no rest in general while the punishment of burning is ongoing, which once begun will be unquenched, the worm dying not, like as in the rubbish fires, where even should the fire miss some flesh etc, the worms would devour the rest, likely figurative of the fullness of destruction, destruction that does have an end, but has eternal results, I am a human with limited understanding, so I could be wrong in many ways, but I feel the scriptures support a just loving and merciful God, who punishes in varying degrees of severity according to the works of the individual, and perhaps with varying lengths of time too, hence no rest whether it be day or night for the duration of your punishment, which will have an end because the saints will walk over the dust of the wicked in the new earth, again I may be wrong in many ways, but I feel I am close to the truth as well, needing correction in the doctrine by Gods grace, but understanding sufficiently for salvation, the only wrong being where I use my own reasoning, or the reasoning of others, to explain difficult passages of scripture, where Gods word alone is sufficient as explanation, peace.

    Reply
    1. Schalk_and_Elsa

      Shalom Barry,

      We would like to refer you to a book by JK Mckee titled “Why hell must be eternal“

      Reply
  4. Barry Thomson

    Hello again my friends,

    I just want to be more clear, I would like to keep the commandments, I would like to remember the sabbath day and do no work, from genesis to revelation I wish to live in obedience to Gods word, but the sacrificial / ceremonial Laws are fulfilled in Jesus, the feast days of the year are fulfilled in Jesus, I am not certain of the details, but in the like of Jesus being our Passover lamb and the first fruits of the resurrection, the unleavened bread of life, no leaven meaning sinless / spotless, weeks likely to be the 40 days temptation Jesus underwent by the devil though that is speculation, Tabernacles again speculation but likely the Lord dwelling amongst his people through the Holy Spirit, the day of atonement being Christ our high priest entering once into the Holy place by his own blood redeeming his people forever, etc, I could be mistaken in ways, but the Lord Jesus likely fulfilled these dates, then there is the laws governing the nation of ancient Israel, these can be learned from and translated into modern life as wisdom, but do not govern our lives in the sense that, the temple is gone, the Levites are gone, and the nation of Israel is no longer the way to relationship with God, the body of believers is made up of nations and tongues from around the world, the body of Christ is the spiritual nation of Israel yes, but the point is this, you do not have to be a jew, you do not have to live like a jew to be saved, to be a jew is not necessary at all, but you must be a Christian, whether jew or gentile you must believe in Christ for salvation, therefore we are not called to become Israel as the jews reckon Israel, we are not to live by the governing of ancient Israel in feasts and sacrificial laws and etc, we are to live in obedience to the whole of Gods word, we are to keep the moral commandments, yes the ten commandments but the moral laws throughout the Bible, but Jesus freed us so that all we have to do is become Christian and live as good Christians, we are called to liberty in Christ, not to bondage, the old covenant is gone, the new covenant is here, as it is written for Christians, whether they be jew or gentile,
    1 Timothy 4 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
    2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
    3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
    4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
    5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

    1 Corinthians 10 1
    Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
    2
    And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
    3
    And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
    4
    And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
    5
    But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
    6
    Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
    7
    Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.
    8
    Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.
    9
    Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.
    10
    Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.
    11
    Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
    12
    Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
    13
    There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
    14
    Wherefore, my dearly beloved, flee from idolatry.
    15
    I speak as to wise men; judge ye what I say.
    16
    The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?
    17
    For we being many are one bread, and one body: for we are all partakers of that one bread.
    18
    Behold Israel after the flesh: are not they which eat of the sacrifices partakers of the altar?
    19
    What say I then? that the idol is any thing, or that which is offered in sacrifice to idols is any thing?
    20
    But I say, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils, and not to God: and I would not that ye should have fellowship with devils.
    21
    Ye cannot drink the cup of the Lord, and the cup of devils: ye cannot be partakers of the Lord’s table, and of the table of devils.
    22
    Do we provoke the Lord to jealousy? are we stronger than he?
    23
    All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.
    24
    Let no man seek his own, but every man another’s wealth.
    25
    Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake:
    26
    For the earth is the Lord’s, and the fulness thereof.
    27
    If any of them that believe not bid you to a feast, and ye be disposed to go; whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience sake.
    28
    But if any man say unto you, This is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that shewed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth is the Lord’s, and the fulness thereof:
    29
    Conscience, I say, not thine own, but of the other: for why is my liberty judged of another man’s conscience?
    30
    For if I by grace be a partaker, why am I evil spoken of for that for which I give thanks?
    31
    Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.
    32
    Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:
    33
    Even as I please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved.

    Romans 14 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
    2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
    3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
    4 Who art thou that judgest another man’s servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
    5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
    6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
    7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
    8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord’s.
    9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
    10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
    11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
    12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
    13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother’s way.
    14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
    15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.
    16 Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
    17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
    18 For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
    19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
    20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.
    21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
    22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
    23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

    Colossians 2 1
    For I would that ye knew what great conflict I have for you, and for them at Laodicea, and for as many as have not seen my face in the flesh;
    2
    That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;
    3
    In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
    4
    And this I say, lest any man should beguile you with enticing words.
    5
    For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ.
    6
    As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:
    7
    Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
    8
    Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
    9
    For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
    10
    And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
    11
    In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
    12
    Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
    13
    And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
    14
    Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
    15
    And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
    16
    Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
    17
    Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
    18
    Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,
    19
    And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.
    20
    Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
    21
    (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
    22
    Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men?
    23
    Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.

    Ephesians 2:15 15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

    Colossians 2:14 14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

    so other than consideration of perhaps honouring the feast days or the applicable governing Laws, we are to follow the moral commandments, but consider ceremonial / sacrificial Laws fulfilled, by in Large, the Law of moses is fulfilled, by in large, though all commandments and statutes on morality must be heeded, as the LORD said, John 14:15 15 If ye love me, keep my commandments, but that does not mean become jewish in practice, we are not to live as ancient Israel, the house of whom has been left to them desolate, until they say blessed is he who comes in the name of the LORD, again, looking forward to your thoughts and or discussion, peace, Barry.

    Reply
    1. Schalk_and_Elsa

      Shalom Barry,
      You are right in saying that we cannot keep all the commandments. Women were never expected to keep the laws pertaining to the priests for example. In the same way we cannot keep the laws pertaining to the Levites or the sacrificial system because there is currently no Temple. You are also right in saying that we do not have to become Jews in order to be saved. That was what Paul was teaching too. Our salvation is through the sacrificial death of Y’shua. Only through believing in Him do we attain salvation.
      All the feasts have not been fulfilled, we understand it differently. Y’shua fulfilled the Passover, He was the First Fruits from the dead, Shavuot was fulfilled when the Holy Spirit was poured out. Yom T’hruah will in future be fulfilled when the coming of Y’shua is announced, Yom Kippurim’s fulfilment will be judgment and Y’shua dwelling with us eternally will be fulfilled in Sukkot. The feasts are memorials and future prophecy and we celebrate it to remind us. The commandments are YHVH’s instructions for living and we have to have a heart of obedience to do what we can out of love for our Father and what He has done for us. Not to attain anything – not blessing nor salvation. Out of love for giving us forgiveness and life eternal. that is how we see it and live accordingly. when you see it this way, it is not burdensome nor difficult. we also often miss the mark and that is why we need Y’shua, because we are imperfect human beings in need of a Savior.

      Reply
  5. Barry Thomson

    and another thing haha,

    I am open to discussion that we may edify one another, but I wish to make clear my position, that the old covenant with Israel is no more, the new covenant between Jesus and the whole world who receive him is in force, all scripture is profitable, but the primary application of our faith, and of old testament doctrine, is given to us in the new testament, the new testament teachings are how we apply the teachings of the old testament in our lives, there is much more to it than that of coarse, I have to heed and obey the old testament, all scripture must be in harmony with itself, but it is in the new testament primarily that I will find applicable instruction as a new testament believer on how to conduct myself, curious to your thoughts, to be clear, I heed and obey the old testament, neither old nor new is more important, all scripture is profitable, it is just that in the old testament are instructions for the old covenant which applies no longer, in the new testament is instruction for the new covenant, do you see what I am saying? peace.

    Reply
    1. Schalk_and_Elsa

      Shalom Barry,
      The Old and New Testament are in harmony with each other. YHVH is a covenant-keeping Elohim. He does not change His mind. He is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow.

      Reply

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